The Cauldron

Oh yes, once again the great crusade between the DIE HARD FANS of Achmed and Ashe bang head to head in a match to out-match all!

Another fun forum. I'm not an Ashe stabber, I like him nearly as much as Achmed. But Achmed, The Brother, Ysk, etc... is my ultimate favorite, right above Anborn. If anybody wants to join this forum, feel free.

Please give reasons/explanations as to why you love/hate ether character. Remmember, this is for fun. I don't want no bloody swords being drawn over this. Just arguments.

Once again, you don't have to answer this forum, you can just pass it by like the dirt under Grunthor's boot, or the pond scum under his heel.

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The instructor put's out a single chair in the middle of an empty room, and he says; "Explain to me how this chair is not here."
One student says: "Chair, what chair? I don't see a chair."

AVATAR BY ME

Deja vu...I'm in the Matrix.  I seem to recall a very similar thread about 3 Cauldrons ago .
But I'll answer anyway, as you say for fun...
I definitely like Achmed much more than Ashe. 
Ashe just annoys me sometimes though at other times he's all right.  I guess maybe it's because Ashe is a gushing sappy romantic, which makes me want to gag, and very possessive and petty, but I can forgive him for that b/c it's not entirely his fault being part-dragon; he usually reigns it in and I can respect him for that.  One plus for Ashe is that he's got amazing skills with Kirsdarke.  But truthfully most of the time I can't stand him.
My favorite is Achmed, and Anborn is a close second, maybe even tied in first, because Achmed and Anborn are very similar in some aspects of their personality.

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"All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream."
~Edgar Allan Poe
"Darest thou now O Soul, Walk out with me toward the unknown region, Where neither ground is for feet Nor any path to follow."
~Walt Whitman
~Avatar made by Me, madhatter.

I'm an Achmed fan, I can't stand Ashe.  I prefer the tall dark mysterious types.  Ashe seems to be so perfect in many ways (though not in every way!) that it just annoys me after a while, and when he starts crying I just want to slap the boy and tell him to be a man!  Achmed's faults and imperfections make him far more interesting and he isn't afraid to do what he needs to do.     

I think I may actually be an Ashe fan over Achmed. Don't get me wrong, Achmed is fantabulous in every way as a character, but I would have made the same choice that Rhapsody did I believe.

Though Ashe is quite sappy, and if he were my significant other, I'd probably like him less because that's how I roll.

Yes. Roll. I like things until I have them and then I like them less.

Ashe = boyfriend material, Achmed = forever closest friend/brother.

I love them both.

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Av. used with permission from me, to me, by me, for me etc.

I may not have ended up where I intended to go, but I have ended up where I needed to be.

I'm a total Achmed fan.  I have been from the first time I read the books.

With Achmed, he's tall, sarcastically funny, highly intelligent, and has cool skills. 

I admire Ashe because of his commitment to his wife and child, and his skills with the Kirsdarke.  Unfortunately, he cries way too much and doesn't seem to rationally think things through. (Dragon nature aside)  There are things that are obvious to those around him, but he's oblivious to them.  In short, I think he's a pantywaist.

*SPOILER*

 

That's not to say Achmed doesn't have his share of stupidity.  The whole thing with the Lightcatcher and Esten proved that, as did his initial reaction to Ashe when he showed up in 'Rhapsody'.  The debacle in Kurimah Milani also came across as something of goof on his part.  At least, that's how it came across the first time I read 'The Assassin King'.  I'll have to read it again.

But anyway, those are my main thoughts on the guys.

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I rule. I will rule. I have ruled. I am without rule.
~Carmina Burana

*Avatar by my sister; permission granted*

Achmed hands down.  Ashe is alright, but Achmed is so much more intriguing and entertaining.  Sometimes Achmed is an immature and jealous jerk, but thats part of his charm as a character, especially when you catch glimpses of his compassion or sensitivity; those moments are like finding gems lost in the desert as the wind uncovers them in the shifting sands, revealed for a fleeting moment, only to be concealed again until the next storm.  But the memory is still there...[sniff].

Ashe on the other hand is, "wah wah this, boo hoo that," it's getting so old.  In TAK he's like the kid who's having his first sleepover at his best friend's house next door and starts crying and wants to go home. He's ruining the party! It's like, "Dude, we get it, you're having a bad century- going through Pre-Mutation-Syndrome.  Maybe you should consider moving on." 

In real life I'd rather marry an Ashe (sans Dragon bi-polarity) than Achmed, and in real life, I'd probably be traumatised for a 2.5 weeks if I had to take a look at Achmed's hideous face.  But in Fantasy fiction world, as Rhaps, I'd take Achmed anyday! Woohoo! Yeehar!

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Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.

In life, we are not made happy by what we acquire, but by what we appreciate.

I think everyone knows my choice based solely on my forum name...no mystery there! haha  Achmed all the way, and I am very happy for Rhapsody that she has Ashe so I can guilt-freely worship Achmed.

Although you people make a good point that Ashe is more boyfriend/husband type material.  I think my first boyfriend (in high school) was more of an Ashe.  I was totally in charge of that relationship, and I love him to death but he was a clueless pushover.

In college, I was always the pursuer.  I didn't have any patience to sit back and wait for a guy to call.  If I was interested, I went after him.  Naturally, I got tired of that and just wanted a guy who would stand up to me when I was being controlling.  Granted, I did initiate the first date that started my current relationship, my very own live Achmed (more or less) in the form of my current boyfriend.

We had our first fight, and he actually yelled back at me and didn't back down from my wrath.  This might seem really weird to be happy about, but he's very independent, sarcastic (SOOOOO sarcastic), funny, nerdy, and stubborn. He doesn't show weakness very often, and he goes head-to-head with me.  Just like I imagine Achmed would do...and I tell him he's my Achmed, but he has no idea what that means since he hasn't read the books.

Remember when Rhapsody described Achmed's face as "the unfinished work of a distracted god"?  (Don't remember which book, though).  She said something about his face being otherworldly handsome or something like that...even though everyone else thinks he hideous.  Alright, so the point of my ramblings is that my guy is totally hot, like Achmed after going through the Root. 

Oy, hahahahaha! This subject will never die. :D

My sketchbooks can answer this one.

Are there enough people who like both to form an Ashmed group? I just thought the name was funny.

So far we have the Achmedians in one corner and the Ashephiles in the other.

Achmed's Lover, the quote you mentioned is from the first book, Rhapsody: Child of Blood. And I've had my own problems making Achmed "ugly" in my own drawings, haha. But I'm getting better at that! Come to think of it, I haven't drawn the Bolg king in a while....

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ILA <><
Avatar by iluvachmed. Yay! :D

• I GRADUATED COLLEGE!!! WOOT!
• President of the "Artists Who Can't Draw Achmed Ugly Enough" Club.

I think I am the only person who's posted so far who prefers Ashe waaaaaaaaay more than Achmed. Achmed to me seems a bit too... emotionless? Maybe that's not the right word for it. But he doesnt seem to come across as friendly, and that is my main focus here. This post has nothing to do with looks (Although my current boyfriend will look a lot like Ashe when he's older, seeing as though we're both still in our teens) but more the personality side of things.

Ashe is a hopeless romantic. He is sensible when need be and has had to control his dragon side for a long time, which means he can cope with things. I admit that he does cry too often, but boys who cry are sexy. He has emotions, he knows when he's wrong, but he still stands up for what he believes in. When his dragon side DOES emerge and he does things wrong (Like going into a rampage and throwing Rhapsody into a wall, can't remember which book that's in, maybe Destiny) he apologises and tries his hardest to make things better, unlike Achmed (Although he hardly ever gets out of control in the first place). He's genuine and you know what he's thinking. He has no alterior motives unless his father is concerned. He takes his responsibilities easily, but is modest about certain things, like the Lord Cymrian part.

I just think that, all in all, Ashe is the nicer of the two (Feel free to shout 'WE ALREADY KNEW THAT' anytime soon...). He is not the perfect man, but there are a lot more good points about him than I can count. He cares about Rhapsody, and shows it; that's the bottom line.

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Avatar Art © Rhapsody - Yargh, that would be Thesa, the fiery Pirate Captain! =]

No, Rhaps, I am totally with you!  I have never trusted Achmed and never really liked him.  To me he seems like the cocky, arrogant one.   Ashe seems more like a real person, so what if he has cried once or twice?  He is the genuine "nice guy" and-at the risk of upseting half of the forum (I really do like you guys so don't kill me over this)-most girls quickly give up on believing in the genuine article.  Nice guys finish last because women think that they are too good to be true so they don't trust them.  Well, I don't trust Achmed and one day he'll do something that although may be for the good of all it'll be a haneous act that even the character Rhapsody might not forgive!  It's like the atomic bomb scenario in World War II: just because it ended the war, was it right to kill all those innocent people?  I think if Achmed knew the whole story he would answer yes!

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Save the Earth; it's where I keep all my stuff!

I'm so surprised everyone goes for the grumpy, ugly, silent guy! Ashe talks about his feelings, is completely head over heels in love and is not afraid to show it and his description is absolutley sex on legs - come on girls - what more could you want! Sensitive, sexy and sensual, hmmmm....
Don't get me wrong, I think Achmed is a really cool character, but Ashe has got to be the hands down winner.

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Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad - a light heart lives longest

IloveGwydion wrote:

his description is absolutely sex on legs

I laughed so hard when I read this.  I love it!  That is a GREAT quote and I intend to use it in the future (if that's okay with you).

ILA:  thanks for the book reference.  You and I might have to have a throwdown to see who loves Achmed more j/k 

We are all mature enough here to be able to love our guy and state our opinion of the other without becoming upset because others don't agree with us.  So what if I like Achmed and you like Ashe?  ("You" being the general use, no one in particular).  We can still be friends because we can act like adults, so don't worry about "alienating half the forum who loves Achmed" or anything like that.  I don't foist my opinion onto you, you don't foist yours onto me, and we all live happily ever after with our chosen hunks.  (And by "foist" I mean something along the lines of, "I can't believe you like...  That's so stupid, you're dumb for thinking that, and you should totally like ... because of this, and if you don't see it my way, then you're a retard.")

I know it might seem like a "Well, DUH" to put that down in writing that we can all have our own opinions, but it's always good to be reminded that everyone is entitled to their own. 

Okay, back to topic now:  my sister and I were talking about boyfriends in general (she hasn't read the books, but this is relevant, I promise).  She was like, "Don't you want a guy who will always bring you flowers and surprise you and say the right thing?"  And when you phrase it like that, the obvious answer is "Yes."  And then I got to thinking.  Flowers die (I have a black thumb anyway, and the money would be better spent on SoA books or chocolate ), I hate surprises, and yes, the right thing at the right time would be nice, but c'mon...let's be realistic here.

Her point was that my current boyfriend doesn't do any of those things, and she just wanted to make sure he treated me right.  He's always sarcastic (except for those rare moments of vulnerability and sincerity), we say vulgar things to each other that neither of us mean, but are just fun to say anyway, and he does good to remember to say hi to me between the door (when he's home from work) and the computer.  Okay, I'm exaggerating just a bit, but you get the idea.

That's when I realized that I have my very own Achmed, and as far as "treating me right" by society's standards, no, I guess neither of us treat the other "right".  It goes both ways, though, and it makes us happy.

Sarcasm in reality is definitely not nice, but it sure is entertaining in a story.  I think Achmed has so many fans because he is such an extraordinary invention, but heaven forbid any of us should date someone in real life with his personality.  Ashe would even be worse; clinginess is sooo unsexy.  But even without the clinginess, he is just not as interesting as Achmed.  It's totally not a judgement on whether someone is more likable as a person!  Sometimes the villian is way cooler than the hero (think Dr. Evil v. Austin Powers, or Hatsumomo v. Sayuri, the movie version).  So its even better when a Hero is not simply a walking Ken doll, but has villainous tendencies (like a hilariously bad attitude). 

What makes Achmed so fascinating is that he is such a paradoxical character.  He was training to be a Healer, but was an Assassin, As a Dracian, his purpose was to defeat F'dor but he was enslaved by the F'dor.  He is very uncaring, self-centered it appears, but he also cares about Ylorc's subjects and the fate of the world. He is the guardian of the stone-child, and also a total ass.  He thinks love is stupid, but he loves Rhapsody.  He's supposed to feel at home in the wind, but the wind hurts his face.  I'm trying to write something coherent, but I've just pulled an all-nighter so I'm just going to force myself to stop now.  You get my gist.  

Ashe is cool too, eh...but not so much...      

 

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Always remember that you are unique, just like everyone else.

In life, we are not made happy by what we acquire, but by what we appreciate.

I feel like I'm the only guy here c.c  Maybe I am, but either way, I have to get my two cents in here...

I can totally understand how everyone here seems to like Achmed over Ashe.  It's that badass image that drives girls wild and makes fathers lose sleep.  Achmed is the badass of the book, plain and simple.  However, I'd say that Ashe is a far better choice for Rhapsody to love.  After all, Ashe fell in love with her before he was even born.  She crossed time to be with him, giving up any chance at a stable life she had before.  He loves her despite her faults, and for them as well; Achmed can only sneer and jest at her former life.  Rhapsody and Ashe endured terrible hardships to be with each other, to gain, regain, and re-regain their love for one another.  Ashe is a wonderful and caring person, on top of a being a great leader of the entire realm, all the while fighting off being part dragon.  He may seem clingy and whiny and other such things, but really he is just in love with Rhapsody and does what anyone truly in love wishes to do: spend as much time as possible with that person as possible.  As long as neither one of them gets sick of it of course c.c  But I'm not even sure how Achmed is even a contest in this sort of thing.  Due to his attitude and his type of life, the paths he's chosen and/or been forced to walk upon, he's going to only have friendship at best, and not even a lot of it because he's so coarse and unfriendly, and downright mean in most cases. 

If I met Achmed, I'd probably hate him.  But since I've read about him, I think he's a decent guy.  I'm not going to invite him over to play cards or anything, but, I figure at best, I could tolerate him, and he'd likely ignore me.  If somehow, Achmed and I became close friends, he'd still be looking for ways to manipulate me, and use me toward his advantages.  Nobody likes to be the pawn or a tool.  

Ashe on the other hand is a great guy.  Someone I'd want to call a friend because I'd be willing to help him whenever necessary, and he'd be willing to help me.  Someone who apalls manipulation because he's been subjected to it for a long time.  He respects and cherishes life and has only truly felt hatred toward two people (in a manner of speaking... one was a dragon, the other a thrall of the F'dor), both of which were evil.  He doesn't trust Achmed, and dislikes what his father did to him, but he does not hate either one of them. 

Now you may be wondering why I'm bringing up this hatred aspect, and that's just a general rule for myself.  I try never to hate people, and find it apalling when people hate other people.  Achmed, who expresses distaste and loathing for all sorts of people, scholars, religous leaders, and whatever else, just disgusts me sometimes.  He is unwilling to make a compromise and never sees a reason why someone would understand anything any differently than he does. 

There.. I guess my rant on Achmed is done.. and my standpoint should be clear by now... c.c  If I were Rhapsody I would make the same choice, and as a guy, I'm glad she made the right choice because that gives all the other nice guys in the world hope.  Now if only I had been brought across time and space to meet the love of my life when I was a kid... c.c

I just thought it was amusing that the only two guys (that I know of anyway) that have posted here both like Ashe better than Achmed. Both Target Zero and Resimars417 said they find Ashe more appealing.

I personally used to like Achmed more (I had a boyfriend that was clingy before, ridiculously so, that reminded me a bit too much of Ashe for a long time), but as I have read (and re-read, and re-read again) the entire story, I find a greater appreciation for the character of Ashe. I would say now that I enjoy both of them a great deal for very different reasons now.

Also, I would say that as much fuss that is made over Ashe and Achmed, there is one male character that is also quite complex that gets overlooked: Grunthor. Here is a man that has no problem sitting down to "Lirin Chops" for dinner, yet is obviously kind hearted and gentle of spirit in many ways. Look at the love and protection he shows for Rhapsody and Jo. He is completely devoted to Achmed, and has earned his total trust, which, as we all know, is no small feat. Anborn and Ashe both respect him, as did Stephen. He is both hard as steel to his troops and dedicated to them in ways most have never known before. They fear him and are completely sworn to him. He is a Kinsman, and something terrible happened to him in the Old World that we know nothing about. He's absolutely fascinating!

Of course, do any of us really, really believe it is even possible for Elizabeth to write uninteresting characters? I think not!

 

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Avie pic by me.
Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Jake: Hit it. ~ The Blues Brothers (1980)

You know, Val, you're right. Out of all the characters in SoA, I think Grunthor is the most mysterious and complicated, not because he keeps his past or his thoughts a secret, but because we don't hear much about it.

But getting back to Achmed and Ashe, I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes Ashe more. I'm just a bit disconcerted that I'm the only female who does to a great extent. FernGully is undecided, I believe.

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Avatar Art © Rhapsody - Yargh, that would be Thesa, the fiery Pirate Captain! =]

I make it a point not to mess with "taken" men, so I refrain from these types of debates! lol

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"No, they're not real, but thanks for noticing"! WoW Dwarf Female /silly
Avatar by Krinsel

Well, I like the character of Achmed more than Ashe, but I was reading through parts of Prophecy again last night, and I've found that he isn't that bad. I seemed to dwell on his whiny side before, but he doesn't do that *too* often. While I like Achmed and his sarcastic comments, he can be mean and heartless sometimes, and that's where Ashe wins with his emotions and everything. ;D

Rhapsody wrote:

You know, Val, you're right. Out of all the characters in SoA, I think Grunthor is the most mysterious and complicated, not because he keeps his past or his thoughts a secret, but because we don't hear much about it.

But getting back to Achmed and Ashe, I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes Ashe more. I'm just a bit disconcerted that I'm the only female who does to a great extent. FernGully is undecided, I believe.

Hello! You are not alone in being an Ashe fan - I think I am his biggest admirer yet - and I'm a girl too woohoo!
Think what I like about him is what one of the lads posted earlier - he is so in love with Rhaps and is so devoted to her and loyal. Maybe its his childishness that also appeals to me, he seems to playful and young at heart - not sure what this says about my taste in men! And don't forget, he's drop dead gorgeous also. I love Achmed and Grunther - think they would be better for a night on the piss rather than a romantic meal though.

Happy New Year to you all.

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Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad - a light heart lives longest

And another Ashe fan! I don't feel so alone now. I agree with you whole-heartedly about the 'playful and young at heart' thing, I have a thing for guys like that.

Enough of my rambling!

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Avatar Art © Rhapsody - Yargh, that would be Thesa, the fiery Pirate Captain! =]