The Cauldron

from Destiny: Chapter 38, pg. 348 [American PB] (Rhapsody in the Veil of Hoen deciding which child’s pain to take)

 

Rhapsody stared at the floor.  “One or two?  How on earth could I ever choose?”

 

 

One of the parts in the book that really irritated me was when Rhapsody just had to take it upon herself to endure ALL of the suffering of those F'dor children in the Veil of Hoen.  It was like EH was trying to make her into a Christ figure or something. 

 

She could’ve just endured the pain on the babies’ behalf, and let the older ones (especially Constantin) tough it out on their own.  I think EH just likes to make Rhapsody suffer so the reader is forced to sympathize with her, but hasn’t Rhapsody suffered enough already?

 

 

from Destiny: Chapter 42, pg. 372 [American PB] (Rhapsody talking to the ghostly form of her sister)

 

“Is it really you, Jo?” she asked.  Her voice trembled…

“Of course not,” Jo replied, still intent…  “What you see is only what your memory tells you.”  She looked up and met Rhapsody’s eyes for the first time.  “But my love is with you.  You needed to see me, so I came, at least a little.”  

 

 

I also never liked that whole dream candle thing with Jo.  It wasn’t even real right?  It was just Rhapsody’s mind projecting what she desired---which was Jo’s happiness.  Or was it really Jo’s voice and thoughts?  Anyway, I feel that EH was trying to have her cake and eat it too.  She should have left Jo completely dead or brought her completely back.

 

 

from Destiny: Chapter 41, pg. 367 [American PB] (Constantin and Rhapsody’s dream form has just finished making “love”)

 

In his sleep, Constantin pulled her closer and sighed; the sound went to Rhapsody’s heart.  Ryle hira, she thought.  Life is what it is.  She just wished it weren’t so damned sad sometimes.

 

 

ARGH!!!  Why is Rhapsody sighing over Constatin.  How many girls has Constantin raped after his gladiator battles---I am betting a lot.  He should be castrated, so he could later become a eunuch, instead of a preacher. 

 

How she handled Constantin’s desire toward her also irritated me.  That whole dream candle thing where Rhapsody let him be with her dream form ticked me off.  He didn’t deserve even that!!!  I think that would only exacerbate his womanizing problem.

 

 

from Destiny: Chapter 39, pg 354 [American PB] (Constatin harassing Rhapsody in the Veil)

 

“Come with me,” he said soothingly.  I am no longer angry; I will be gentle with you.  You have nothing to fear; I won’t put it in all the way.  Pay your debt, Rhapsody.”

 

 

If I was Rhapsody, I would have just kicked him in the groin and then asked, “Do you still want me now?  I have to admit, even though it was a quickie, my foot has fallen in love with your crotch.”  Then I would have kicked him (in the crotch) again.  “Well, if you want another go at it, you know where to find me.”

 

I hate Constatin (even old Constatin). 

Okay, so today we discover how opposite SIA and I really are.  I mean.. there have been a few cases where we've been considered similar, but this is where the similarity ends.  I loved this whole part of the book, and believe it was written splendidly.  I can't think of any other way to do it.

Sam I am. wrote:

from Destiny: Chapter 38, pg. 348 [American PB] (Rhapsody in the Veil of Hoen deciding which child’s pain to take)

 

Rhapsody stared at the floor.  “One or two?  How on earth could I ever choose?”

 

 

One of the parts in the book that really irritated me was when Rhapsody just had to take it upon herself to endure ALL of the suffering of those F'dor children in the Veil of Hoen.  It was like EH was trying to make her into a Christ figure or something. 

 

She could’ve just endured the pain on the babies’ behalf, and let the older ones (especially Constantin) tough it out on their own.  I think EH just likes to make Rhapsody suffer so the reader is forced to sympathize with her, but hasn’t Rhapsody suffered enough already?

 

 

You wouldn't do that?  You'd let them fel the pain knowing that they don't deserve it.  No one deserved to feel that pain, but Rhapsody stood up and decided to take it on.  I would have done the exact same thing.  I just couldn't bear to see someone else in that kind of pain... no matter how cruel they were in life.  It is just something no one deserves to feel.  Who is to decide who gets pain and who doesn't?  How can a human (half-human half-lirin in that case) dare to know who deserves to feel pain and who doesn't?  She made the right choice, the only choice available to her.

 

 

Sam I am. wrote:

from Destiny: Chapter 42, pg. 372 [American PB] (Rhapsody talking to the ghostly form of her sister)

 

“Is it really you, Jo?” she asked.  Her voice trembled…

“Of course not,” Jo replied, still intent…  “What you see is only what your memory tells you.”  She looked up and met Rhapsody’s eyes for the first time.  “But my love is with you.  You needed to see me, so I came, at least a little.”  

 

 

I also never liked that whole dream candle thing with Jo.  It wasn’t even real right?  It was just Rhapsody’s mind projecting what she desired---which was Jo’s happiness.  Or was it really Jo’s voice and thoughts?  Anyway, I feel that EH was trying to have her cake and eat it too.  She should have left Jo completely dead or brought her completely back.

 

 

Of course it's real.  It's a dream with the aspects of Jo as a part of it.  If it helps heal the old wounds, then it's more real than actually seeing her again.  It's a really intriguing idea to me.  Being at the edge of life and death, consciousness and unconsciousness.  Rhapsody slept with the aroma from the magical candle that allowed all of the magic of that place to come out. I don't see it as a cop out to have Jo still be dead but be alive.  It's not as bad as Gandalf.

 

Sam I am. wrote:

 

from Destiny: Chapter 41, pg. 367 [American PB] (Constantin and Rhapsody’s dream form has just finished making “love”)

 

In his sleep, Constantin pulled her closer and sighed; the sound went to Rhapsody’s heart.  Ryle hira, she thought.  Life is what it is.  She just wished it weren’t so damned sad sometimes.

 

 

ARGH!!!  Why is Rhapsody sighing over Constatin.  How many girls has Constantin raped after his gladiator battles---I am betting a lot.  He should be castrated, so he could later become a eunuch, instead of a preacher. 

 

How she handled Constantin’s desire toward her also irritated me.  That whole dream candle thing where Rhapsody let him be with her dream form ticked me off.  He didn’t deserve even that!!!  I think that would only exacerbate his womanizing problem.

 

 

You seem to be missing the point of this just a little.  Rhapsody believes Constantin is a good person that had the unfortunate circumstances of being demon-born... and she's right!  Constantin becomes the Patriarch!  The highest and holiest of positions!  It's called forgiveness and repentance.  Constantin discovered what he did was bad, so now he's trying to right those wrongs. Rhapsody understands that healing needs to take place before they can move forward, and she would gladly take part in the healing if it will make him a better person.  How could you not be willing to help another person?

 

Sam I am. wrote:

 

from Destiny: Chapter 39, pg 354 [American PB] (Constatin harassing Rhapsody in the Veil)

 

“Come with me,” he said soothingly.  I am no longer angry; I will be gentle with you.  You have nothing to fear; I won’t put it in all the way.  Pay your debt, Rhapsody.”

 

 

If I was Rhapsody, I would have just kicked him in the groin and then asked, “Do you still want me now?  I have to admit, even though it was a quickie, my foot has fallen in love with your crotch.”  Then I would have kicked him (in the crotch) again.  “Well, if you want another go at it, you know where to find me.”

 

I hate Constatin (even old Constatin). 

Granted, Constantin wasn't the nicest of people, but keep in mind he didn't understand things any other way.  Is it fair to kick a beggar in the crotch for being poor if his parents were poor, and their parents before them?  He's been set along a path, and that's the only path he knows.  Rhapsody understands this, and is willing to help him. 

 

Rhapsody is a hero.  She's the kind of person that wishes to help everyone (at least everyone that has a soul to save), even the worst of people.  I couldn't recognize any other type of character as a true hero.  I suppose it's a matter of perspective and everyone will have their own, but to me, there is always a way to save every life.  I don't see the witch hunter as a hero... he walks into a town, discovers a witch is there, and burns the whole town killing everyone.  Was it worth all of those deaths to kill that one evil person?  I don't think so, but many think of that as a heroic deed.  You can have your own opinion, but just be glad we're not in a fantasy world, with your heroes roaming about.

I agree with res that you're looking at this from a perspective that makes all of these things seem bad.  I think I know why you're looking at it like that, too.  You love Rhapsody so much that all you want to do is protect her and keep her from pain, because when she's in pain, it hurts you too.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  It's perfectly natural to want to protect someone like that.  I think Rhapsody would appreciate the way you feel about her (even if she can protect herself....don't forget, she's not as helpless as her appearance might make her seem) but I KNOW she'd get aggravated with you if you took it too far (such as, trying to carry her over, like, a puddle in the sidewalk or something)

Anyway, here's a different perspective on the things you described, so maybe it'll help you come to terms with these parts and (if not like them) not dislike them as much.

Sam I am. wrote:

Rhapsody just had to take it upon herself to endure ALL of the suffering of those F'dor children in the Veil of Hoen.  

 

She could’ve just endured the pain on the babies’ behalf, and let the older ones (especially Constantin) tough it out on their own. Hasn’t Rhapsody suffered enough already?

I understand where you're coming from.  You are thinking about it in terms of YOU loving Rhapsody and not wanting her to be in pain or suffer.  Unfortunately, you can't exactly save her from herself.  Go with me on this for a second...

Remember, she's been putting herself through a lot of guilt over leaving her family, always thinking that she could go back, and her biggest regret (I think) is hurting them and not saying good-bye.  In other words, she never got closure from that (or...at this point, she hasn't gotten closure yet).

Rhapsody took ALL of their suffering as a way to atone physically for the pain she put her family through.  It was a way to begin the healing process so that she could let go of her guilt and shame about leaving her family and move on with her life, remembering them in happiness instead of "I'm the worst daughter in the world, and I can't even think of my mother without crying".

The suffering of heartbreak is almost worse than physical pain, because at least physical wounds will heal eventually.  But sometimes people don't get over heartbreak, and Rhapsody could very well have been one of them.  Now, though, she's purging her inner demons, doubts, guilt, and shame through physical suffering.

That doesn't make it hurt any less for YOU, though, except this:  YOU might not like the fact that she felt like she needed to suffer physically, but if she hadn't, I think she'd be a LOT worse off.  ("Lesser of two evils" kind of thing...)  And I'm not saying you have to love that she's in pain, but it might help you not be so sad about it if you know how much better it's making her feel.

 

 

Sam I am. wrote:

It was just Rhapsody’s mind projecting what she desired---which was Jo’s happiness. 

Rhapsody was also carrying around an enormous amount of guilt about Jo.  Remember, she said that if she hadn't loved Jo, Jo would still be alive (on the streets) and that because Rhapsody came along and changed her fate, Jo died for it.  And because Jo was dead, she couldn't tell Rhapsody not to feel that way and that Jo was better off for Rhapsody having loved her, even if she died.

So Rhapsody didn't have closure with Jo's death either, and this was a way for her to achieve that closure, since Rhapsody DOES take the pain of the world onto her shoulders.  She's noble, all right, and I think it's because of that that you want to protect her, because she accepts the pain so willingly.

Sam I am. wrote:

ARGH!!!  Why is Rhapsody sighing over Constantin.  How many girls has Constantin raped after his gladiator battles---I am betting a lot.  He should be castrated, so he could later become a eunuch, instead of a preacher. 

 

How she handled Constantin’s desire toward her also irritated me.  That whole dream candle thing where Rhapsody let him be with her dream form ticked me off.  He didn’t deserve even that!!!  I think that would only exacerbate his womanizing problem.

Rhapsody sees Constantin as a little boy with no mother who was forced to grow up in a violent setting with demon's blood.  That would make anyone a gladiator, I'd think, and she understands that (like res said) he's never known anything different.  But Rhapsody thought that, given the chance and choice to change and be better, he would.  And she was right.

But again, you are looking at it from your perspective of him taking advantage of her (while still nothing wrong with that, if you see it through her eyes, you might understand better...You may or may not like it, still, but you'll understand.)

 

Sam I am. wrote:

from Destiny: Chapter 39, pg 354 [American PB] (Constatin harassing Rhapsody in the Veil)

 

“Come with me,” he said soothingly.  I am no longer angry; I will be gentle with you.  You have nothing to fear; I won’t put it in all the way.  Pay your debt, Rhapsody.”

 

 

If I was Rhapsody, I would have just kicked him in the groin and then asked, “Do you still want me now?  I have to admit, even though it was a quickie, my foot has fallen in love with your crotch.”  Then I would have kicked him (in the crotch) again.  “Well, if you want another go at it, you know where to find me.”

 

I hate Constantin (even old Constantin). 

Okay, I'll give you this.  Constantin was being a jerk here.  BUT think about this:  the culture that he grew up in taught him that he was entitled to "service" after a match, from a comely woman in next-to-nothing scarves.  That was just their culture, bad or good, right or wrong.  So when THE comeliest woman he's ever seen arrives at his door, he thinks exactly what he's been trained to think (not his fault, not her fault...actually, if you wan to blame someone, blame Llauron for dressing her particularly like a Sorboldian whore.  She saw other women wearing more clothes than she was, and I don't think she let herself conclude what that means because it meant thinking badly of Llauron.)

Blame Llauron.  But anyway, so Constantin has been raised to think one way, and then it doesn't go that way, so (naturally) he feels cheated and like he's entitled to "service" from her since she tricked him, even though it saved his life.  (and when I say "naturally" there, I don't mean that he's right or wrong...I just mean that logically, it follows from what he's been raised to be.)

And Rhapsody, here, was just too noble for her own good.  I don't think she had a debt, but when Constantin said that, she didn't refute him.  But she also didn't want to sleep with him, even if (in her past) she would've just "done what needed doing"...however, Ashe changed all that because she gave herself to him willingly and then couldn't go back to "just doing it" for survival.

So at this point, Rhapsody was feeling guilty that she "cheated" Constantin, so the candle thing was a way for him to "have" her for a night and her not to actually have to physically follow through with it.

I know you're going to say, "But she never should have HAD to do that in the first place!" and I agree with you, but Rhapsody thought she would have to.  So if you go from THAT starting point, things actually worked out rather nicely.  They definitely could have been worse!  I think the alternative would have been for Rhapsody to just concede to do it, even if she didn't want to, which probably would've depressed her more for NOT having had to do that in a long time (AND just beginning to associate good things with "it"...ie Ashe) so to climb out of that pit, to know what it feels like to be out of the pit, and then to be cast back down into the pit would've been hard on her.

I doubt very much that I've changed your mind, but hopefully this might help to clarify where Rhapsody was coming from when she said/did/felt some of these things.

from Destiny: Chapter 41, pg. 367 [American PB] (Constantin and Rhapsody’s dream form has just finished making “love”)

 In his sleep, Constantin pulled her closer and sighed; the sound went to Rhapsody’s heart.  Ryle hira, she thought.  Life is what it is.  She just wished it weren’t so damned sad sometimes.

Uhm, according to your transcription it seems as though it is Constantin who sighed and not Rhapsody. Rhapsody is naive and overgenerous which is why she acts the way she does. You'd think she'd learn but then that wouldn't be who she is and the whole book would crumble. I'm just surprised she isn't totally creeped out knowing that he had that dream of her and didn't want to get the heck out of Dodge.

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resimars417 wrote:

Okay, so today we discover how opposite SIA and I really are.  I mean.. there have been a few cases where we've been considred similar..

 

LOL!  What?  Who said we were similar?  IMO you are far too nice a person to be considered similar to me.  You are a shield, and I am a blade.  You are more like Ashe, and well, I guess I am more like Achmed (or Tristan).

 

 

So res and AL are ganging up on me huh?  *que the western music*  Two against one.  *que the tumbleweed blowing in the wind*  And WoW Gal is the bystander watching it all go down.  *que WoW Gal shrieking in despair at the thought of me being shot down*

 

I sensed a tone of challenge in your post res.  Normally, being the human weapon that I am, I would strike back, hard and fast, and go for the lethal deathblow.  Launch a massive attack of adjectives and arguments so spellbindingly persuasive and so dazzling logical that you quiver in your boots and beg me for forgiveness.

 

But the presence of AL complicates things, so I hesitate to do that (and also because I can’t think of anything to retort right now).  If I were to strike, AL would be compelled to defend you, and that leaves me with quite the quandary.  Hmmm…  very interesting.  So interesting, that I forgot what this post was originally about.

 

Ah yes, I remember now…  I believe Achmed’s Lover has presented where Rhapsody is coming from quite nicely, and has explained Rhapsody’s motivations for her actions extremely well.  But knowing why she has done something does not convince me that what she did was right.  I think that both of you (res and AL) are way too easy on Constatin, I’ll just leave it at that.  But I’m more or less okay with how the Jo situation was resolved now.  And I’m okay with Rhapsody taking the pain for all the children now---EXCEPT FOR CONSTATIN.

WoW Gal wrote:

Rhapsody is naive and overgenerous which is why she acts the way she does. You'd think she'd learn but then that wouldn't be who she is and the whole book would crumble. I'm just surprised she isn't totally creeped out knowing that he had that dream of her and didn't want to get the heck out of Dodge.

YES! YES!  That is what I meant to say!!!

Sam I am. wrote:

I think that both of you (res and AL) are way too easy on Constatin, I’ll just leave it at that.  But I’m more or less okay with how the Jo situation was resolved now.  And I’m okay with Rhapsody taking the pain for all the children now---EXCEPT FOR CONSTATIN.

I agree. She should have let Constantin bear the weight of that pain; the Gods know he inflicted enough pain on others while in the Sorboldian arena. And yes, I understand that he was not to blame for the whole thing, that he was forced to be a gladiator, but he's big enough and ugly enough to make up for that. I think the real question here is; why did he not just leave the arena in the first place? Sure, it was a way to live, but if he didn't want to inflict pain on people in the first place, why didn't he just high-tail it out of there? No one could ever dream of stopping him (Except for maybe Rhapsody with that horrible liquid of hers) with his tie to blood and his great strength. I think he enjoyed the fight, and the spoils that came with it. That makes him less than a good guy IMO. In a way, I think he deserved that pain. Rhapsody should have let him have it.

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Avatar Art © Rhapsody - Yargh, that would be Thesa, the fiery Pirate Captain! =]

Heh. Sam I Am, you must not be so convinced in your thoughts on this matter if the very thought of arguing against AL makes you give up ^.o  I am standing and defending Rhapsody's actions as the most obvious path for a character of pure good.  If you can't understand purity and charity then you will continue to make the same impure and uncharitable actions. 

And Rhapsody, nobody deserves pain.  Pain is something that happens and inflicting pain or allowing pain to be inflicted are both bad things.  Constantin inflicted a lot of pain in his life, so yes, he did a lot of bad things, but does that mean that he deserves pain for it?  No.  Rhapsody took the high road, she did the good thing, which was not letting him feel pain.  Sure Constantin could have taken it, but he shouldn't have had to.  It's the path of the truly good to forgive even the worst of people.  When that person realizes all of the horrible things he has done, and feels guilt, it is a much stronger feeling than pain, or the fear of pain or retribution.  When you, someone who has killed people for a living for nearly 20 years, find out that someone endured the pain you had to feel to save your soul for you, there is a sense of guilt. If someone forcefully brought you, tortured you day after day for years, just so that a soul you didn't even know you had could be saved, you're going to feel bitter and angry.  I, personally, can't imagine a better way to have done it, and I would have, without hesitation or second thought, done exactly what Rhapsody did.  Call me stupid, naive, overgenerous, whatever, but it is the best choice that could have been made.

Also, if you put yourself in a position of judging another person's actions as to whom is deserving of your compassion, it isn't true compassion.  Constantin's actions might be reprehensible, but he is a product of his circumstances, in order to survive he learned to live with his lot in life...as the Lirin say, Ryle Hira.  Also, if Rhapsody's arrival was 20 years earlier, he would have been as old as the youngest, Aria, and she regarded all of the demon spawn as her grandchildren:

Destiny  American softcover: p 350

"I'm their grandmother. I have much to atone for in my life. Perhaps this will serve as a beginning."

In regards to pain, I'm sure it was excruciating, but your mind can only register so much past a certain threshold, so as Rhapsody took on each of the children's burden, it was actually less as a whole, than if each child had to endure it on their own.  Since she assumed the pain anyway, what better way to not "play favorites", than to give each of them a fresh start?  In regards to Constantin, what better way to illustrate another side of life, where someone makes a willing sacrifice to spare another.  Constantin could have endured his own pain, but that would only have perpetuated what was the only meaning in his life thus far: survival.  He learned to love sacrifice and ultimate compassion in the form of Rhapsody, which opened his heart to the rest of the world.

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"No, they're not real, but thanks for noticing"! WoW Dwarf Female /silly
Avatar by Krinsel

Well, I just want to thank you all for putting me in a place I really hate: straddling a fence!

I read what Rhaps and SIA says, and a part of me nods my head and says, "Yeah give it to him!!" Then I read Res and Krin's responses, and I find myself thinking, "They are so right. Absolutely!" Thus my fence. *sigh* I dislike loose ends.

When I read it, I have to say that what I got out of it was that Rhapsody is a much better and far more forgiving person than I am. And I cried. Really, which one child could she have chosen? And how could she have lived with that decision, all the while watching the others endure such a tramatic pain as that? How can one shild be more deserving than another. And all human beings are worthy of love, even if we do not like them. Granted, I don't know that I would have taken Constantin's pain, but of course Rhapsody would have. I do understand that had she not, Constantin may not have become the Patriarch. Constantin became a wonderful man because Rhapsody believed he could be a wonderful man if someone just showed him true love. So, her sacrifice was not in vain. Constantin is a changed man.

Now, I would not have done what she did for him. But I am much more selfish and unforgiving than Rhapsody. Was Constantin a product of his birth and environment? Probably, but I am more with the people who say that we all make choices. I do not think that this makes him unworthy of love, though. 

However, since this is a fantasy, I'll buy it. It does, after all, fit right in with Rhapsody's character.

Keep in mind that Achmed is hardly better. He is an assassin, and he and Grunthor dispatched enough death in their time. And Achmed didn't want to save even the little children. Oelendra didn't either. I imagine Ashe would have even wanted them destroyed. Only Rhapsody believed the children, all of them (and Achmed, Grunthor, Jo, and Ashe, as well, let us not forget) were worth saving, and deserving of love.

---

Avie pic by me.
Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Jake: Hit it. ~ The Blues Brothers (1980)

*I will not sidetrack the thread*
*I will not sidetrack the thread*
*I will not sidetrack the thread*
(I feel like Bart Simpson...but if I were super cool or had more time--your choice--I would have photoshopped it to read what I was just writing...haha  Goals for the future, baby!)

resimars417 wrote:

Heh. Sam I Am, you must not be so convinced in your thoughts on this matter if the very thought of arguing against AL makes you give up 

Hmmmmm interesting.  I don't know whether to be excited because I (might) win or sad because SIA doesn't want to argue with me! 

resimars417 wrote:

When you, someone who has killed people for a living for nearly 20 years, find out that someone endured the pain you had to feel to save your soul for you, there is a sense of guilt.

Even if that person's name happens to be "Achmed"?  Seriously, though, this made me think, and if it's too sidetracking for the thread, mods/admins, just say so and I'll move it to a new thread.  If Rhapsody willingly endured an unthinkable amount of pain for Achmed (and he knew it at the time)...would it make a difference in his character?

I'll pose a hypothesis:  If Achmed gets injured and is in serious pain, and then Rhapsody willingly takes it from him, do you think he would feel grateful?  Would it change his character?

Good question, AL.  Although it is a little off-topic, I'll let it slide since we are discussing Rhapsody's taking of another's pain to spare them.

I really don't know...I think that if Rhapsody took Achmed's pain that it would change her soothing vibrational signature for a while which would cause Achmed discomfort, anyway.  She already provides the "calm" which his sensitive nerve endings need, and he, if not grateful for it, certainly appreciates it to some extent. 

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"No, they're not real, but thanks for noticing"! WoW Dwarf Female /silly
Avatar by Krinsel

And now, I am going to remove my comment about a certain Sorboldian gladiator and what he deserves...

Once again, I am amazed at everyone's persuasive powers! ^_^ I still stand by my previous post, but now that I think about it, he didn't 'deserve' the pain so much. I was probably being a bit too harsh there. But, as Val said, Rhapsody was a lot more forgiving than I would ever be if I were in that situation.

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Avatar Art © Rhapsody - Yargh, that would be Thesa, the fiery Pirate Captain! =]

Amazingly enough, last night I was paging through the latest edition of Parabola magazine, and came upon an article that discussed the life and experiences of St Therese of Lisieux, and how she willingly and happily suffered pain for others.  So many of the citations in the article reminded me very much of Rhapsody, and I was considering putting this in the Behind the Scenes  section, but since this is still an active discussion, decided to start it here.

 

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"No, they're not real, but thanks for noticing"! WoW Dwarf Female /silly
Avatar by Krinsel

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rhapsody make sure none of the demonic children (including, and especially Constantin) knew that she was suffering on their behalf? So Rhapsody couldn't show Constantin the power of absolute love, forgivness, and selflessness because he didn't know that she was suffering for him, in effect rendering his reclamation and his becoming the Patriarch as a result of the extraction of his demonic blood and his time spent at the Rowans???

And here's another question: Do you think Rhapsody would have suffered on the behalf of, say... the Waste of Breath?! Do you think she is that impossibly noble and selfless? hmmmmm....I'm honestly not sure I could say I know what she would do.

littlesparrow wrote:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rhapsody make sure none of the demonic children (including, and especially Constantin) knew that she was suffering on their behalf?

Remember, though, that the Lady Rowan showed Rhapsody the process by which the blood would have to be removed using Constantin as an example, and Rhapsody was in tears and panic (trying to run into the room and being held back by "unseen forces") to make it stop.

I think you're right that she didn't tell the others, but when she was talking to Constantin, he was bitterly telling her that he had been bled before "but never from the heart."  And she replied that she was sorry he would have to endure all of this, but that the next time, there would be no pain.

I don't remember exactly if she told him bluntly, "I am suffering the pain of the procedure so that you won't have to" but it's apparent that Constantin put 2 and 2 together and came up with 4...he spent extra time in the Veil with the Rowans long after Rhapsody and the others left, and I believe that he realized (if he didn't before) that the pain had to go SOMEWHERE...and that somewhere was Rhapsody.   And THAT (combined with her unconditional love) changed him into the kind, good-hearted, gentle Patriarch.

Case in point:  when Rhapsody tries to give him back the locket and he's like "What do I have to do to get it back?/What do you want from me?" and she responds that since it's already his, he is entitled to it and she has no right to "ransom" it back to him.  That, I think, was the first time he actually "got" it and realized that there were nice people in the world.  He realized that the world wasn't necessarily all about pain and blood and torture and suffering...and that turning point, combined with the fact that he eventually found out/realized that Rhapsody selflessly took as much of his pain onto herself to spare him from it (when no one had EVER done that before for him), changed him for the better.

When it came to Constantin, Rhapsody knew what she was potentially getting into to get to him.  She did dress in the slave-girl outfit so that she could gain access to him, so he was only acting upon what he was used to in winning at the arena.

Rhapsody was also within the Veil for what appeared to be seven years, giving Constantin plenty of time to wonder why she was hanging out there for so long, after the children were delivered to the Lord and Lady Rowan.  My guess as the F'dor blood was being slowly removed, his wisdom grew with each passing day, making him realize that the sacrifice she made, though unspoken, was significant.  Another conjecture is that when he finally received the Patriarch's Ring, it would only confirm that Rhapsody acted out of love and compassion, which he would have known anyway.

As for the Waste of Breath, I think no, she wouldn't.  She already submitted herself to his cruelty to save a child, and he repeatedly showed that he was beyond her powers of "redemption", by making a mockery of her humiliation at his hands by passing her around to his lackeys when he was spent, but still wanted entertainment.  She couldn't give a "fresh start" to someone who repeatedly served his own self-interests.

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"No, they're not real, but thanks for noticing"! WoW Dwarf Female /silly
Avatar by Krinsel

littlesparrow wrote:

And here's another question: Do you think Rhapsody would have suffered on the behalf of, say... the Waste of Breath?!

Krinsel wrote:

As for the Waste of Breath, I think no, she wouldn't.  She already submitted herself to his cruelty to save a child, and he repeatedly showed that he was beyond her powers of "redemption", by making a mockery of her humiliation at his hands by passing her around to his lackeys when he was spent, but still wanted entertainment.  She couldn't give a "fresh start" to someone who repeatedly served his own self-interests.

Good answer, Krinsel!  I didn't really want to touch that topic...and I'm glad that you responded with such a level-headed argument that SIA will (hopefully) not pop a blood vessel upon reading littlesparrow's question...we wouldn't want THAT, and I think you've just successfully diverted his would-have-been massive coronary at that particular thought of Rhapsody.

And I agree 100% with you, Krin!  Constantin was around 19...(right?) when Rhapsody found him, whereas I'm sure Michael was more along the lines of 30's...at least, older than Rhapsody.  I think that might make a slight difference because Constantin was given a chance to become what he could have been all along (if he had had a different upbringing) and for that, Rhapsody knows that he is "twisted but not evil"...I think those were the words she used in the chapter.  (Don't have the book right here; sorry!)

But Michael has been evil and cruel and reprehensible his entire life, and Rhapsody knows HE is "evil beyond redemption" (at least, at this point in time, that we know about) and she might be naive, idealistic, and headstrong, but (contrary to the oh-so-popular opinions of Tristan Steward and sometimes Achmed) Rhapsody is not a stupid woman.  Even she has limits, and Michael (in my opinion) is DEFINITELY on the other side of those limits. 

Although...she WAS willing to forgive Anwyn and even wanted to befriend her, but hopefully THAT notion has been set aside and Rhapsody has put Anwyn on the other side of those limits along with Michael.  (Trying to word it in such a way as to not give away spoilers for future books...)

Well, Al, before the end of Destiny, Anwyn is out of the picture, right? So no worries there about spoilers.

One more thing to add about The Waste of Breath: When Rhapsody went through all that horrible depravity for the fortnight Michael had her, at the end Michael had promised her that she could have the child (name?). The at the last minute, he was going to go back on his word. He forced Rhapsody even further humiliation by forcing her to proclaim her *undying* love for him.

I swear, I dislike Michael far more than I ever disliked Constantin. For that matter, I dislike Tristen more than Constantin too! Although I find Tristen to be more of the "not this moron again" and Michael to be more "pure evil".

And speaking of Constantin...in what book does he become who he becomes? I hope it isn't after Destiny!!